Conversations about Writing is a bi-monthly feature starring authors Shōn Bacon (editing guru) and Miki Starr Martin (graphic design guru) who share their thoughts on writing and their reviews on books!

Shōn Bacon

Miki Starr Martin [website]

In June, Shōn and Miki Starr talked about what made a “good” book and began a discussion on character [to follow conversation, read June's discussion here]! This month, the two continue their convo on character!

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From premiere episode:  SB: You know, I do want to make one comment. Robert McKee, in his awesome book, STORY makes a comment about this "moment" for writers, the moment in which characters unleash themselves and we as writers have NO control over it. He claims we DO have control; we may not fully know where characters are going as we sit before the page, but we do control whether the story continues, whether characters go where they go in the story. I prefer to believe McKee, LOL It takes away that "magic" writers think exist when they come to the page, but it gives them back their "mastering" of writing a good story.

NOW, having said that, lol, to answer your question, I don't do a lot of research unless absolutely necessary. If I'm doing a story on a subject I'm not too familiar with, then I do major research, but mostly, I do "life" research. I examine people - at grocery stores, in parking lots, in the drive thru, at the cafe - I read a lot of non-fiction to get people's depictions of their lives; I try to get more from real life as possible.

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MSM:  Well to go back to the reference to McKee’s book STORY - THIS McKee has to a degree…disagree…with THAT McKee.  My reasoning is this: Of course we have control over the characters and where they go past that “moment,” but for me I prefer not to exercise that control because I feel as though it boxes in the characters. The thrill of writing a story for me is that ultimate moment when every character comes to life.  When they defy my parameters for their world and their own personalities shine through. When “they” take charge and lead me to places that I hadn’t imagined that they would go.

Reading your quote, it feels that Mr. McKee is referring to where the actual story goes and not character development (I understand that I may be wrong as I have not read his book). I absolutely continue to guide the timeline of events. There are certain things that are necessary to happen in order to reach the conclusion that I have envisioned. In that area, I loosen the reins a bit and allow the characters some freedom to guide the direction of the tale but I mustn’t hand over full power lest the story could go all over the place. But where character development is concerned, mine would not be real to me if I exercised my right to control who they become and if they are not real to me they won’t be to anyone else.

Moving forward, in my opinion, adding a new twist to cliché concepts helps guide a story in the right direction. Most everything has been done before. Two women in love with one man. The dog boyfriend who just can’t seem to settle down with one woman. The person who can’t seem to move forward in their adult life because they just can’t get over the problems of childhood. What will separate these books from the hundreds of thousands of other books out in circulation with similar themes is offering a unique solution to a cliché problem. To tell it from an unexpected angle or create a twist that changes the expected course of events while the premise remains the same.

SB:  See, that’s funny ’cause to guide the timeline, you have to guide the characters, to “loosen the reins,” you have to be the master of the piece, and then the characters are your creation. Like God, writers create a universe and the characters in it and give characters “free will” or as you would call it “who they become” and them being real, but ultimately, their lives are in our hands and if our timeline isn’t being held to, we bring the characters back and remind them who is in charge, LOL

And you’re right, EVERYTHING has been done before…and it’s important to know all those hackneyed cliches so that you can turn them on their ear and be fresh and innovative!

MSM:  LOL, back to the characters for a minute…I still disagree.  Controlling the timeline of events can be as elaborate as writing an extreme blow-by-blow summary of EVERTHING that is to happen in a chapter (which is what I used to do in the early days of writing) to something as simple as one liners that say:

Chapter one – Jane Meets Jack.

Chapter two – Jane gets into dispute with Cassie. Looses job as a result (such as how PSYCHO was laid out. Outside of those one line notes, everything else was freestyled. I never knew how those one line notes would be achieved prior to sitting down before my computer that week).

In the first example, I am certainly imposing my will upon the characters in many ways BUT I am still not designing the characters and “telling” them who they are. How they react to one another…how they handle stress…their habits/tendencies…how they arrive at the point in the timeline of events is all up to them. For example: In my book ZELLA DORA, I knew from jump that Darwin would have a crush on ZD but I thought (as is what’s written) that he’d be much more obvious about it…sort of like a puppy dog following up behind her and hoping she’d pay him the slightest bit of attention. As you know from having read the story, the above description does not fit the Darwin you met between those sheets (book).

Additionally, I did not decide that he should have a crush, I just felt that was the case. The only thing I ever know for sure about a story is how it ends because that is always the first thing to pop into my mind. Then I go back and zone out and connect to these people that invaded my brain and try to get a feel of what happened leading to that conclusion. I make notes as it comes to me. But in illustrating those characters I can certainly tell the difference when I am allowing them to take shape on their own versus when I am guiding them. In the latter part there is a disconnect and no matter how good someone says what I’ve done is…I’ll never believe it because it isn’t real.

SB:  I’ll agree with characters having free will - we do, too. But I know that because there is an end, and even you pointed out that you know an end of a story first, lol, then characters really only have but so many avenues (subconsciously chosen by you whether you know it or not) to choose from in order to get to that particular end.

I love those moments when I feel like inspiration or the characters took me to a place I didn’t see coming; these days, I don’t wholly believe I didn’t see it coming; it just wasn’t in my conscious, but some other part of my mind knew it.

Now that’s not to say I don’t have a connection with my characters and they are mere puppets on a string because a good character must be three-dimensional and lifelike if it is to draw a reader into the story.

MSM:  I’ll concede somewhat. I think it is fair to say that there is a level of control present at all times though I still maintain that once they take life, I may guide a movement here or there but I didn’t tell them who they are or how to react.

Now I do wholeheartedly agree and have said, though I didn’t write it, that much of it may be subconscious. The characters are influenced by people I’ve met, things I’ve witnessed, and I just may not recognize it when these personalities manifest.  But even in that case, is it fair to say the I am controlling the characters? Or are their traits, habits, reactions, being dictated by the external personality that inspired them in the first place?

I wonder if our view of “character control” differs. Of course I control them at all times in respect to where they go and what they do. True, I sent Pesh Maskow to Dr. Fairway’s office.  True, I am the one that sent Dr. Fairway to Jean Baptiste Marquette’s art showing. I am even the one that ordered that Domonique LaSalle be present. But I did not say that Nicci is going to react to her in this way or that Domonique will respond like this.

To me it’s like…God created the world in which we live and He controls our environment. He places us in certain situations and though he knows what’s best for us, the character that we are determines how we’ll react to those situations.

I don’t see character development as where they go and what they do…who they meet. To me that’s story development (which I do have a great deal of control over). I see character development as how they handle stress, how they respond to stimulai, are they shy or outgoing. Do they have habits (Zella Dora smoked weed and always had cold bottled water on hand. Sierra from Blueprints chewed her bottom lip when she was upset because she’d lost her ability to cry. Nancy from WRD tugged her hair when she was nervous. None of this was planned or decided in advance. It just came out). Their politics.

All of these are things that are not planned (for me). As I write, things come out…the character takes shape. I start to understand who the character really is and it’s that understanding that keeps me consistent. It’s that understanding that makes it clear in proofing whether something is unrealistic…if the person would never act a certain way or react a certain way.

SB:  Definitely agree there’s a diff between the story and the character development. And we do have a difference in regard to how we handle the character development because I want to know little things like the bottle water or the chewing of the bottom lip because characters can be inconsistent and readers can be unforgiving; as a writer, I need to know what makes the character “tick” so that I can ensure consistence with those little things that make characters real. If I know some of these things at the onset, that’s one less thing I have to revise when a story is done.

Come back in October when Shōn and Miki Starr continue their discussion with a talk on dialogue; they also review the Niobia Bryant’s book Make You Mine!

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